Are you tired of trying not seeing results in your business when you implement the strategies and sales funnels all the gurus are teaching? Do you want to run your business and engage with your audience in a way that feels authentic and genuine? Then this episode of She Grows is for you. This week international business coach Angela Henderson is here to share with us the lost art of Human to Human marketing (H2H). In this episode, we define what H2H is and Angela explains how you can transform your business by building authentic relationships. She shares an example of a local brick and mortar business implementing H2H and I give a prime example of H2H in the online coaching world. Angela and I explore ways to effectively use H2H in your business, even if you think you don’t have the time or a large community of your own yet. Finally, we look at what H2H looks like from a sales perspective vs. the traditional sales perspective. GUEST BIO: Angela is an international award winning business coach for women, international keynote speaker and podcaster. Angela helps women in business get all the pieces in place to have consistent 5-figure months and then onto 6/7-figure years without burning out in the process. She does this through her 1:1 consulting, her Action Takers Mastermind, Group Coaching Program and she also runs Australia's leading 4 Day Women in Business Retreat.
In today’s episode we explore:
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Allyson: Welcome, Angela. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us on she grows.
[00:00:05] Angela: Gosh, thank you so much for having me.
[00:00:07] Allyson: Yeah. So you talk about a lot of different topics that are in your expertise. But when I saw the lost art of human to human marketing, I said, this is the topic I want to speak about with Angela, because I find it really fascinating.
[00:00:21] I'm so excited to explore this with you. So let's start with what is human to human marketing.
[00:00:28] Angela: Human to human marketing. For those that may not be aware is they may have heard. I think it's important to kind of go back a bit to, they may have heard about B2B are B to C and for me, as I think B2B and C still plays a significant role in any business, depending on what your individual businesses, but H to H marketing is kind of where I'm like, okay, we've gotta be blending things in, and we'll talk about a little bit more later, but why we need to be blending this in, but
[00:00:53] Allyson: I'm going to pop in here.
[00:00:54] B2B is business to business, right? And then B to C is business to
[00:01:00] Angela: consumer. So business to consumer visits declined. And so depending if you're a service based business or if you're an econ platform, whatever that is, you'll have that business model kind of already set, which is great because it will work for your business.
[00:01:14] You're still going to get leads and all that. But one of the things that I've found in being in business now for over a decade with both of my businesses, is that. You still need to be blending somehow in there that human to human marketing. And depending on where you are, the world, you may have also heard it as P to P, which is people, the people marketing, and really all that means is human team and marketing pertains to the experience in interaction one faces with a particular brand and to emphasize it's again, that experience that interaction sometimes businesses again, will have a really great experience.
[00:01:47] But they will have the interaction or some businesses on the other side will have a really great interaction, but they won't have the experience. So when you blend the experience and interaction, that's intersection that you get for that human to human marketing.
[00:01:59] Allyson: So can you give us an example? Of human to human marketing so we can better understand this.
[00:02:05] Angela: Sure. So there'll be many of you out there that will start shaking your head. And when I kind of start to unpack this, and for me, the experiences is when I was pregnant with my almost 11 year old, I remember that I had these cravings and my cravings are for like these big, massive blueberry and raspberry muffins that I got at this beautiful cafe in Brisbane, Australia called tug DDS.
[00:02:25] And I would go there two, three, four, five times a week. It was those good old pregnancy cravings. And I would walk in. And initially when I started going there, I was like, You know, can I please have a blueberry muffin and a can of diet Coke at the credit card and leave it as I started coming a little bit more, I was like, hi, how are you?
[00:02:40] How's the pregnancy going? Oh, what's your name? Angela. And then, you know, it just became, you know, how many weeks are you? Do you know if it's a girl, do you know if it's a boy? And every time I went in there, it was just this beautiful and rich experience and interaction with the owners. They're waitresses and waiters the community naturally.
[00:02:57] And so then when I had my first child, which has fiddly, that it was like, you know how, you know, how does fiddly, how are you feeling? How are you coping than a Chloe? And the same thing as, as they continue to create this rich and beautiful experience and interaction. Not only with me, but now with my family.
[00:03:11] And we now live 40 minutes, Richard trip to this particular location, it's actually where my children go to school. And even on days on the weekend, when they're not. We still drive the 40 minute return trip to get the blueberry and raspberry muffin, the candida diet Coke. Because even though I can get that five minutes away from my house, it's still at the site.
[00:03:31] It's not the same interaction and experience that I have at tug ladies. And some of you might have this, the same hairstylists that you've been going to for years or the same massage therapist or the same, we call them general practitioners or doctors that we go to. It's the same people that we keep going back to because.
[00:03:49] Get to that experience, that interaction. So that's an example of, for me, what I've found to really be that essence of human to human marketing that I love so much.
[00:03:58] Allyson: That is a glorious example. And I immediately thought of someone just as you suggested, I'm sure listeners are thinking of someone as well, like who had that same experience as you did with a bakery.
[00:04:08] I'm thinking of a coach, a coach I hired, and now she's a person who I follow and is a peer and friends, and that is Patty Lennon. And I just want to give her a shout out here and she's a person who does this. She does just what you're saying. And I'm going to give her a little bit of a shout out because she's so freaking generous with her time.
[00:04:29] And she's so generous with stuff. When I ask her for stuff she's generous with me and she takes that time to do everything. Cause what does this take? Right. And I know you'll talk about this more, but it takes time. It takes a little energy, it takes a little extra, you know, and Patty Lennon, who is an intuitive business coach.
[00:04:47] I always see her doing this. She. Somebody says it makes a comment on social media and she goes and look something up for them and then gives them a really thoughtful response. And I always, my thought to myself is always like, how does she have time for this? How does she have time for this? Because she is a big coach and she runs a multi six figure business.
[00:05:09] And I know it's her doing it. It's not a VA. So. So, if I ask you that Angela, like how does someone like Patty or like you who is running a really successful? I think you're probably multi six figure business too. How do you make, like, where's the line you draw to make this extra time to go this extra mile with a client.
[00:05:31] Angela: I mean, well, there's potential clients and there's clients that come on board and I can talk to you more about that later on. But for me as a potential client is it's about, we are so ingrained to listen to so much a masculine, but also feminine energy. It's not less, it's not vague with the masculine energy here on this one, but we're so ingrained that these gurus are telling us, you must do this and you must do this.
[00:05:52] And this is what it looks like in your business. But the reality of it is a lot of what the growers are telling you is. It's pretty much what they're saying is stop treating people like humans, right? Is it because of that is we are so ingrained in my opinion, to just be treating people like transaction.
[00:06:09] When's the next transaction. When's the next thing going to go into, you know, some people have it on their phones. We're all like touching if you get a sale. Right. And for me is it's just like go back to the basics. If you think about, there's a beautiful saying, I'm just trying to think of the quote real quick.
[00:06:24] And I think it's something like. I've, you know, I've learned that people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. I can't remember who says that. I think it was Maya Angelo. I think it is or
[00:06:35] Allyson: something like that. And I don't remember who said it either, but it's a great one.
[00:06:39] Angela: And my thing is, is if you just think about like what you were talking about a petty low, and I think you said her name was, is that again? Is that feeling people get. Right that experience and that interaction. And because of that, you've left instead of a digital footprint, you've left an emotional footprint and people will buy from emotion.
[00:06:58] All right. People will buy because you made them feel like a human being and not a transaction. So I think sometimes in the world of where we're getting. Fed all of these things from Instagram and Facebook and newsletters or whatever, just go back to the basics, treat people just like humans. Right. And yes, of course, it's going to be a little bit more energy, but you can still be profitable.
[00:07:20] Right. And so that's really important. I also believe I'm a really simple saying of, you know, someone else has probably courted out there, but it's something that I say very, very often. And I guess people have gotten to know me for that as conversations, equal connections. And when you have connections, you have conversions.
[00:07:37] So again, I ask and I, would honor your audience, right? To really be asking themselves how many conversations are they having with their people? Like genuine conversations, not every like, cause newsletters, we all do newsletters for the most part are a lot of us do. Right. And obviously that's automated, we're using a CRM to go out to the masses.
[00:07:59] Right. But when was the last time you picked up the phone? When was the last time you went that extra mile, like your coach did. When was the last time you actually DM someone versus it being a canned response, right? Like when did you really have rich and meaningful conversations? Because when those rich and meaningful conversations happen, you can not have connections.
[00:08:19] And when you have connections, you will have conversions.
[00:08:22] Allyson: Yeah. I love that. And so many of my clients, so the listeners, if she grows, I call them soul guide and women entrepreneurs. They are spiritual nature. They're in service to their people on the planet. They don't like salesy systems and formulas generally speaking.
[00:08:40] And somehow I think they, you know, when I, when I say, well, let's talk about a sales funnel. Sometimes I see people kind of recoiling at the idea. although we, we get, we get over that, But sometimes I feel like they just, at the same time, they don't like that tree, you know, that they want to have this human to human connection that we're talking about here.
[00:09:03] But somehow. I don't see it always happening
[00:09:07] Angela: 100%, because again, it's, it's very counterintuitive. Right? Right. So you're almost having to retrain your brain to go, Hey, it's okay. That I'm not do you mean forcing people to buy my stuff all the time now don't get me wrong. I'm all about surveyed. So many people get tied up in the essence of, Oh, I don't want to sell it feels sleazy.
[00:09:28] I look at it as I'd replace the word selling with serving. Is every day I show up and I serve my audience, whether or not I serve them through my podcast, whether or not I serve them through me, whether or not I served them through a tip, whether or not I serve them through what my program is that I have on spaces available.
[00:09:45] But everything I do is I'm still serving them. Right. So it's about just retraining our brain, that you can still treat people like human beings and still be profitable.don't have to, I'm not saying that we don't sell funnels because I still believe in strategy. All right. What? A hundred percent there's still strategy.
[00:10:04] All right. There's still, yes. Sales funnels, but you can do them in a nod. Sleazy, very authentic. I know that word gets thrown around a lot, but very human way by creating experiences, interactions with them that are gored to leave emotional footprints versus just the digital.
[00:10:21] Allyson: Nice. I love that. So you said human to human marketing includes a fabulous experience and interaction.
[00:10:28] Did I get that correct? Were those the two elements?
[00:10:30] Angela: Yeah. In most businesses will either have one or the other.
[00:10:33] Allyson: Can you just define the difference? Cause to me it kind of feels the same, but
[00:10:37] Angela: can you make it so the interaction might just be like, okay, so you're on Facebook, right? and, that coach that you were talking about, right.
[00:10:45] She has an option. She could just go. Yep. I'm going to interact by saying thank you so much, Angela, for your comment today, she interacted right. But did she create the experience? No, she, she ticked the box. It was an interaction. Can you go Angela? But what you're talking about is your lady is, is we've beautifully the interaction and the experience she's gone, as you said, and found something like, so if someone's asked her a question, she hasn't just gone.
[00:11:10] Here's your answer. She's gone. She's gone. Hey Angela. Thank you so much for your question. Give me a second. I'm just going to go see if I can find this article that I think is really relatable to you and will help you to move you forward. It's that experience like she's taken time to have a conversation with someone she's gone out of the way to make it unique to them, versus just a standard, you know, cookie cutter, whatever approach that is like here's the link have a great day, but she's taken the time to not only interact.
[00:11:39] But she's taken the time to create that experience for that particular individual. And again, make them feel connected to whatever her brand is. And so again, it's like, yes, you can. She could have just had the experience too, so she could have gone. No worries, insula, hope you've had a great day. Here's a link.
[00:11:57] Right, but don't just think by dropping links means that you're creating experiences. It sounds like again, she had some level of enthusiasm. She actually wanted to show up for that person. Again, if you look at energy, it's like people pick up on that. Right. So if you're just dropping shit just to drop stuff, right.
[00:12:15] People will pick up on that. And that's why that experience is, you know, and I'll go through later on some of the ways that I do that, but people are always saying to me, like, and just the way you made me feel. So, if you go back to that quote, we talked about, it sounds like the lady that you were mentioning really makes people feel like she's actually genuinely invested in their outcome.
[00:12:35] Yeah. Said she's taken time out of her day to go and find whatever it is she's finding. She's taken time to almost calculate a response for them right. Based on their individual needs. And that's where the interaction and experience together creates a beautiful human to human marketing experience. That
[00:12:54] Allyson: is brilliant.
[00:12:54] I love it. So tell us, Angela, what does human to human marketing look like from a sales perspective?
[00:13:01] Angela: So, yeah, from, from a sales perspective, there's a beautiful book called the go giver and it's written by I'm going to, I think it's Bob, Bob Burke and John David Mann. And what the guys, I just want to talk a little bit about the sales experience because in this book, the go giver, they really cut to give this twist on human to human sales process.
[00:13:22] But before we go there, excuse me, let's just talk about the traditional sales process though, is typically you've got the prospect. You qualify them, you present, you overcome objections, you close, you might follow up and you might provide some customer service. That's typically, you know what people are saying we should be doing all right, but in the book, the go giver, but the guys talk about it in there.
[00:13:45] As I talk about create value, touch people's lives, build networks, be real, stay open, and you will inevitably become profitable. Very different, right? Because people are always about the quick dollar and I get what it's like to be in startup. You don't want to fail. You are always kind of, I hate the word hustle too, but you're kind of going, you're freaking out a little bit.
[00:14:08] Okay. You're going, ah, I just need to stay afloat. I need to make this work. I get it. But if we could learn earlier on that, by creating value in touching people's lives and building networks being real estate open can be profitable. It would be a lot easier. Cause we're going just with that. Do you mean flow of nature?
[00:14:27] Again, the essence of what we're so many of us just want is to make business easy, but there's so often again, we're being told that you got to work hard. You got to do it this way. No, it doesn't have to be that way. So again, by creating value, touching people's lives and building your networks again, the saying goes, your net worth equals your net worth.
[00:14:48] But yet people are forgetting about that in the process. It ended the book, the go giver is what I also like is what they talk about is the five laws of strategic fear of success. Did they talk about the law of value and they talk about your true worth is determined by how much more you given value than you take it payment.
[00:15:05] The second is the law of compensation. Your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. The third is law of influence. Your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests. First, the fourth, the law of authenticity, the most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself.
[00:15:25] And the law of receptivity, the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving. So again, when you take that human to human marketing element, which is again, very counterintuitive, right? Is again, people start to feel like, ah, this is it. It's like almost friction. I can't possibly make money by adding value.
[00:15:45] I can't possibly make, make money by doing mean serving people first. Gosh, forbid, you know, I've placed other people's interests first or also understanding that again, that law of authenticity is that people so often just want to become like your, the, the favor, you know, is there's this kind of saying is become someone's favorite.
[00:16:04] And if you think about what that beautiful coach did for you, is she can, that valuable gift is to offer yourself. She was prepared to take time out of her day to put someone else the needs before hers. Right. And by adding value, I would suspect that someday it might not be now because I also believe that sometimes just because it's a no now doesn't mean it's a no forever, but those people will bat for her.
[00:16:30] They will support her. And in my experience so often I've got a Facebook community called the Australian business club. There's almost 7,000 people in there. I get tagged daily, multiple times business coach, business coach. He needs to be with Angela. You need to speak with Angela, but then what happens is this I'm like, where are these people coming from?
[00:16:47] I've never coached these people before. They're like go back to either my email list or my, Facebook community is because I've tagged them. I've responded to something they've asked. I've provided value for them. And now they're my marketing people. I'm not paying them to do anything, but because I've treated them like humans, they're doing that for me.
[00:17:10] So again, it's really about kind of sitting in this because for some people, this can kind of spin people's minds for a few minutes while they kind of wrap their heads around it. Right. But it's not that complicated. You know, they talk about why do you need human team and marketing? And there's kind of three main things that I talk about when I say, why do you need human to marketing in your business is one.
[00:17:29] Staggering statistic. Most recent studies have concluded that your customers are human. Let that sink in your customers are human. The second reason why you need human team and marketing is you must stand out and be the purple cow. There's a book by Seth Godin, literally called the purple County talks about the traveling and France or Amsterdam and traveling on these beautiful green hilly roads.
[00:17:53] And he's talking to his family and he's like, look at these amazing cows, Brown cows, white cows, black houses, spots. They're amazing. But eventually those cows just become ordinary ordinary cows on the beautiful scenic drive in France, but he says, but imagine if you saw a purple cow. That would be remarkable at least for a while.
[00:18:15] And so again, if you think about how noisy Instagram is and LinkedIn is, and podcasts are, and Facebook groups are, you've got to disrupt the way you market people. All right. You can't just keep doing what everyone else is doing. So if you go back and treat your customers like humans, you're naturally going to start steadying out of being the purple cow because not many people are doing that.
[00:18:37] All right now. Yes. Granted, there's still some that are, but statistically speaking, you get, what I'm saying is that number is still quite small compared to the average happy Fleur selling. Alright. And the third reason why you need human to human marketing is again that emotional motivators. Emotional motivators drive consumer behavior.
[00:18:56] When you drive consumer behavior, you're obviously going to make more sales and become profitable. So again, by treating people like humans and creating those interactions and those experiences with people, you're leaving an emotional imprint, like I talked about, and eventually you naturally are going to increase the sales.
[00:19:14] So yeah. Does that help to explain everything a little bit better? Oh,
[00:19:18] Allyson: yeah. Yeah. That's lovely. That is really, really good. I want to read this book for, go get her. No,
[00:19:24] Angela: go giver. Go giver. Yep. So the go giver, it's an amazing book by the men. Like I read it probably anywhere from five to six times a year, actually just like, not like read the whole thing, but I'll just kind of skim through it again because it's just one of those books that I feel, and I give it to a lot of my coaching clients when they're ready.
[00:19:42] Cause here's the thing. People have to be ready to receive this information, right. Sometimes they're not ready for it. And so sometimes even on this podcast, not everyone will be willing to want to hear about human team or marketing, but as podcasters and as you know, women in business, I still feel that it's our responsibility just to plant seeds.
[00:20:00] I find them a little bit more and put them a little bit more. And then when people are finally ready for that to take that from the universe, they'll take it when they need it. Right. And so again, the Go-Giver book is I give that to people when they're ready to kind of bring that up feedback on board.
[00:20:14] They're like, Oh my goodness, this is right. I don't have to do it this old traditional sales process. Why I can do it this way, where it still feels aligned and still feels good to still move my business forward and I can still be profitable. Yeah.
[00:20:29] Allyson: So I have a question. It gets back to what I had mentioned about Pally Lennon.
[00:20:32] Who's this example we're using. and I'm really happy to use her as the example cause she's so I think this is how this is working. Angela. She's been so generous with me that I want to be generous back to her and give her some free advertising here. Just like you're getting nagged by people. Right. so when I see her taking the time to do just what we're talking about, Hmm.
[00:20:56] And I know that she has a big business. She has a lot of flower followers. She has programs, masterminds clients. I say to myself, how does she have the time to do this? So in your situation, you have, you know, a group of 7,000 people in it. You've got a lot of stuff going on. If you're getting a lot of people.
[00:21:14] Reaching out to you and asking questions. I mean, how do you know when it's time to take this extra time and go this extra mile or not? Like, do you have kind of, do you just use your intuition? Like what tells you that this is the client I'm going to do. Just take this extra time. Cause we have a finite amount of bandwidth in a day.
[00:21:35] So sometimes you really can't respond to all the queries that come in,
[00:21:38] Angela: right. 100%. But again, that's where it's about, again, that experience, that interaction does it have to be with me it's it can be with my team. So it's still about the way we make people feel. So our kind of golden rule again, it's never perfect because obviously you're still gonna miss some questions is that no question gets left behind.
[00:21:56] So whether or not it's me, that's responding. Whether or not it's my team that's responding. Is that again? Someone's responding because it's really important for me personally, one of my values is community and I don't want people to ever feel like they're in business alone. And then they ask a question they're like, see, that's why I don't ask questions.
[00:22:13] Cause I don't get a response. But again, train my community that we've got certain days of the week, right? So me Monday tip Tuesday, you know, promo Wednesday, thankful Thursday and fab Friday where we share a win. Right. Cause that again, I've trained them to be part of that community and to answer those questions too.
[00:22:31] So it's not necessarily just me that does it. Or my team that does it, but it could be a community member that does it also. So it's still about it's that, but ultimately in my group, it's super important that I'm still creating an Angela Henderson consulting experience and interaction. My group is a purple cow, in my opinion, compared to other groups you get welcomed.
[00:22:52] When you come into the group, your questions and comments, don't go on answered. You feel part of the community. I've been told repetitively weekly, if not daily, sometimes that my group is very different to the others. So again, that's an example that it doesn't necessarily have to be me creating that experience and that in that interaction, but it's about my team and that community that represents overall me, right.
[00:23:16] That that's the vibe they're getting. You know, another example I use is that many of my coaches told me not to show up in my groups. and then it was a waste of my time. Literally, every coach has told me that. And I've and I've questioned them. And they're like, no, if you ever want to be a seven figure eight, figure nine figure businesses, you can't keep showing up in your group groups.
[00:23:35] And I was like, but why. Why can't I keep showing him up in the groups because here's what I see in so many groups, because I call it the seagull analogy, you know, seagulls, you go to the beach, they just shit on you. And they fly away. It's the same type of thing. Cause I'm in multiple groups. And I could always tell when it's launched time.
[00:23:52] Because miraculously, the odor of the group just Marotta, Clea appears magically appears, right. They come in there for kind of that 10 to 14 day period. Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. And then leave
[00:24:03] Allyson: again. Yes, yes. I know you're talking about, I'm not going to say anything, but I'm thinking of a couple right off the top of my head of
[00:24:10] Angela: bigger name coaches.
[00:24:11] Yep. And I'm just like, okay. But if that works for them, that works for them. That doesn't work for me. Okay. As I continue to show up there daily, I continue to release podcasts. I continue to do like release blogs. I continue to ask questions of there. There is a fine line about people picking your brain.
[00:24:30] Right, but just asking for like some general health, if I have a blog article and we've got over 120 blog articles, over 107 podcasts episodes, I pretty much am able to recall. Right. And so is my team. They're getting better at that too is going to have, Hey, really great question a lot, but I'll give you an example.
[00:24:47] One is business insurance. Do I need business insurance for my business? Well, I did a podcast interview on business insurance. So I'll say, Hey Johnny, really great question here. Listen to my latest podcast into very view where I go into this particular question with a broker here in Australia. Obviously, if you're in a different country, it might apply differently, but you're going to get a gist about what type of insurance you need for your business.
[00:25:09] Hope that helps. So we try to be able to just use content that's already been purposed and just repurpose that. but if it's someone like hi, Angela, I'd really like to understand the strategy about my top of funnel, mid funnel, bottom of funnel. Right? And I would say, dear Suzy, really great question.
[00:25:27] However, because I'm a business consultant and I'm working with other clients, you know, et cetera, it's really a, not fair for me to give free business advice to those people who are paying. Alright, but also is I could be sued for giving the wrong advice without understanding your business collectively, which that's not a lie.
[00:25:46] If I'm just sprucing off advice. And I don't know anything other than two sentences of a question they've asked me, I could potentially damage their business versus help their business. So I might say something like Susie, really great question. Thank you so much for that, but because I don't understand your business model, I don't feel that it's appropriate for me to give you the, the sound advice that your business deserves.
[00:26:11] If you're ready to invest in yourself and into your business, you know, feel free to book a discovery call where we can talk about your goals, what you're struggling with and how I can help you create that strategy, or feel free to look at our podcast and blog and our other resource page. You might find some additional answers there.
[00:26:29] Hope that helps. So I'm not like it's, it's more like I use that same when they're really just generally trying to pick my brain and want free advice. Right. But for them they're like, okay, great. Thank you so much. Like what are they going to say? Right? No, that's, I mean, they could
[00:26:45] Allyson: have really brilliant way to tell people that, like, that's just a beautiful way to communicate it.
[00:26:51] And it sounds like. putting up, and this is a number one rule in being a business owner and in life, really, putting up healthy boundaries around your time and about what you give for free and what you don't is a big part of this,
[00:27:05] Angela: is that a hundred percent? And I would say, I would say like, if you were to even go in my group and just kind of look around.
[00:27:12] There's very few people asking for free advice. It's pretty much the, kind of the newbies that are doing it and cut it. Don't know my vibe, which again, fair enough. They haven't been there long enough to know that, but typically there's not a lot of advice, questions that are asked because I've laid those boundaries from the beginning.
[00:27:27] Like write for them. And even if like someone, you know, goes in and asks a question and other people give advice. If I see that people are giving unethical advice, advice, advice that I just didn't like, this is not kosher. I'll also sometimes just delete the comment, because again, I don't want to be seen as, Oh, Angela's group gives bad advice.
[00:27:48] Like I saw white web developer say completely off the cuff advice. And I was like, excuse me. I was like, actually that's messed up. That's actually true. I don't want to be part of that. Right. So. For me because I understand SEO and I understand a web development and what makes a conversional website. And because I understand certain assets because I've been doing this for so long, is I also have a duty of care in my opinion, to make sure that my group is run efficiently and effectively.
[00:28:14] But other things that I also do is. For example, when I close cart on one of my group coaching programs, my 12 month group coaching program, I close it. We close cart at midnight, and I had to be at the airport at 8:00 AM to catch my flight to the Maldives or Mel Dave's, depending on what country you're in, how you say it.
[00:28:30]for one of my business masterminds. And I had a four hour, five hour layover. It was in Singapore. And so I had had my VA at the time, just create a list. I think I had 15 new people sign up for that particular program. So she had already collated the, their list and their phone number. So when I was in Singapore and had that time, I just use Skype credit.
[00:28:50] And I personally write each of them, myself. And I still I've had three new people signed up for that program this week. Cause it's evergreen now and I've called each of those people myself. So I don't have to, but I make a choice to do that. All right. also any new client that is either a group coaching client in my mastermind, or am I wanting to one we've been able to also send personalized gifts now, those personalized gifts?
[00:29:13]I, there's an email that gets back at either my team or I will send that email. We'll just say, thank you so much for setting up one last quick question. Could you tell us the name of your business the year it was established in your home address? That then gets sent to one of my other clients who I work with, that I've been having her do this now for ages, she then creates a personalized bamboo business sign that gets sent right from her, her shop to them.
[00:29:37] People lose their mind. Why? Because I'm not sending a notepad and pen that has my branding on it. Personalized gift that costs me roughly $25, including postage. Obviously, if it's in Australia slightly, a little bit more of a postage. If I'm sitting in internationally $25 there, then sharing it on Instagram again, I've it created an interaction and experience I've made them feel like, damn, Andrea's really.
[00:30:07]valuing what I do here. She's really taken time out to really understand my business and brands so far. This is amazing. I have refunded two people of that program ever. Two people.
[00:30:21] Allyson: Yeah. And it's that time? It's that time thing again? I think that's so powerful when you're a client and you see someone you perceive to be a busy, successful person taking time out for you and not expecting anything in return.
[00:30:36] Like, I think that's sort of the, that's like a, to me and tell me if you disagree with this, but really to, Implement this, the spirit of this, all the way through it's that interaction and experience, and then not expecting to get a sale from it. You're just doing it to do it
[00:30:56] Angela: 100%. But again, but because I'm leading with value and because I generally show up and because I generally care about these people that shows like I don't actually, I don't have to work hard.
[00:31:09] Right. It just is what it is now. I'm not saying that I'm still not showing up in serving and showing people what I have on offer to work with me, but it doesn't mean that I can't do that. Plus still treat them like human beings.
[00:31:22] Allyson: Yeah.
[00:31:22] Angela: Yes. You can have both. Whereas I think a lot of people are told you either one or the other, right?
[00:31:28] No, I can still, I've been, we've both been listen up until this recently we've been utilizing Facebook ads, very minimally. Everything else. The hundreds of thousands of dollars I make every single year has been very organic growth. My email list is only 4,500 people. That's it. Right. But again, because I show up people continue like today.
[00:31:50] I had four, no, sorry. Today I had six discovery calls. Every Monday I do my discovery calls and I'm booked out. My discovery calls are booked out till not next week, but the following week already. But again, I hop on my own discovery calls. Others have told me. No, no, I'm not saying that I won't get a sales team eventually.
[00:32:09] And they might do that first initial call, but I still want to be able to talk to people why you don't go into a BMW and you don't go into a, you know, Mercedes or whatever, and say, I'm going to take the $80,000 or the a hundred thousand dollar car and not ask questions and test drive it. In fact, I find that to be quite negligent of business owners, who aren't going to want to figure out what these people are about and do they stand for the right values and do they know what they're doing?
[00:32:35] So, I'm not saying that I won't eventually not get a sales team to do that initial call, but I still want to be able to make a 10 to 15 minutes talk to those people who I'm going to want to work with. One-to-one. Another thing is, is, you know, like I said, there is a lot of ways that you can automate things too, you know, we've got it set up that again, when that personalized gift comes through is, once the payment goes through 10 X pro, which is the platform we use, we use a zap and that zap then notifies us.
[00:33:01] And then that zap then goes off to my designer who then makes the personalized gifts and that emails them out. So it doesn't mean that we have to be doing the doing and also with ringing new coaching clients. This is the thing. Oh, my God, I don't know the time. Duh, here's the thing. Most people don't even pick up the damn phone because they go, Oh my God, this is like a different, do you know mean phone number?
[00:33:24] I hit decline. Right. Yeah. Right, right, right. So when I called those people, when I was in Singapore, there's what, 15 or tall? Can't remember. So I don't know the data in front of me. Like literally only two people answered literally. And I will tell you, this was the response. This can't be, how did you get my number?
[00:33:42] And just on the way to the Maldives, this, how did you get my number? I'm like, no, no, no, because the line was a bit bad. I'm like, no, it is. And I'm just, I'm using Skype credit to ring you right now. I'm in Singapore. Oh, Another person literally said, I need to pull over. Cause I can't believe it's you. I mean, again, how that's that experience and interaction, right?
[00:34:06] It's not just me going, hi it. An email. Yay. Welcome to my program. That's the interaction and the experiences of them hearing my voice, that experiences me having a conversation with them that is teaching them that again, that I value them as humans. It wasn't just a credit card I was after. Again, like I said, he's got choices.
[00:34:28] I know Jasmine star, you know, she's Jasmine star is a very big, as some of you might know, big Instagram or big photographer, she's got hundreds of thousands of people that follow her. And she was in a, a conference one time and someone asked her a question at the podium, cause this was a story that a friend of mine in the UK had shared with me.
[00:34:47] And they said, Jasmine, you know, we get. Hundreds and hundreds of DMS a day, you know, and we just, we have to outsource it to the VA or, you know, what else can we do? And she's like, you answered them yourself. No, no, no, no, no. Jasmine, you don't understand. We get hundreds of DMS a day. She's like, so do I outsource things that don't need human to human contact?
[00:35:09] So again, you have choice every single day people, every one of us, when we wake up, we have choice, choose to do it or choose not to. That's okay. Whatever you choose, but just know that there is another way than what everyone's teaching you and that's human to human marketing. So what if
[00:35:25] Allyson: you're very new to the entrepreneurial journey and you don't have a lot of people even asking you questions coming to you.
[00:35:32] You're not a known quantity yet. How, what advice would you give to that person?
[00:35:38] Angela: Go into other people's communities? There's millions of people. There's millions of groups. There's find the group where your ideal client is sitting and go in there every day and spend 10 to 15 minutes and two or three different groups and answer questions, add value to people's lives without expecting anything in return.
[00:35:57] Because once you start, you know, adding value and they start to take notice, they're probably, they're gonna, you know, just by default, right? They're gonna like, who is this person that was really helpful. That was really kind. They then won't go to your Facebook page. Check out your profile. They do a mini stock.
[00:36:14] You've just left in emotional imprint, all these people. So if you don't have a big following, that's fine, but don't use it. Don't use that as an excuse. There's always a way to connect, go to other networking groups, right? Eventually like, again, I pay anywhere from 40 to $60,000 a year to go into different masterminds and different programs to up my skill myself.
[00:36:33] That wasn't always the case. I started out going to free like networking groups, right. And then I started to pay $10 and then $15. I had value show up to those meet and greets whether or not that's virtual or whether or not that's face to face, add value. Don't come, don't come from a place. In my opinion of, Oh, I'm giving all my secrets away.
[00:36:55] No, you're not. You're not really doing that. You'd be, but you're being driven by ego at that stage. Right. You can always hear 100%.
[00:37:05] Allyson: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yes. I love that. That is beautiful advice. So Angie, may I call you and
[00:37:14] Angela: totally,
[00:37:16]Allyson: I always ask my podcast guests to leave our listeners with a challenge on this topic.
[00:37:24] Challenge them with on with regards to human to human marketing.
[00:37:29] Angela: My challenge would be, is to look at and write down how many conversations you've actually had with people in the last month. And then from there double it the following month. So really go back and be like genuinely. How many times have you picked up the phone?
[00:37:45] Zero. Okay. Well, if it's zero, we've got a bit of a problem. That's all right, because you can't really double zero. Then I would say pick up the phone and call one person every week. One person, that's all you have to do that conversation can be like, Hey Susie, I just wanted to check in and see how you're doing.
[00:38:00] I know it's been a couple months since the last time we connected. Is there anything I can help you with? Any questions you have? People will lose their PR like literally will lose their brain and it doesn't just have to be service based businesses. I work with a lot of econ businesses. And obviously if they're getting hundreds of orders a day, it can be very tricky to try and manage that.
[00:38:19] But what I would say is if you're getting a hundred orders a day, or let's just say a hundred orders a week, pick up the phone and call 10 people. Have you have you or your team? We remember it. Doesn't just have to be you, right. Have you, or your team pick up the phone and just say, Hey, Susie, I just wanted to make sure that you received your, I don't know you do to 2021 planner.
[00:38:39] Cause obviously 20, 20 planners have been no good for any of us. So just wanted to see if you buy your 20, 21 planner. Yes, it was great. Thank you so much. Is there anything else we could have done better for you? No. Okay. All right. Anything else? All right. Great. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time, but we just wanted to make sure that you've received everything that our customer service was to standards, and we wish you a beautiful day.
[00:39:00] So get, I just always say that there's always people looking for excuses. Oh, I be calm. I can't do no. You can find a way. Alright. And again, remember it's the experience and interaction one faces with your particular brand. So does it have to be you picture that that team member is getting on the phone that they've, that they're, you know, happy, bubbly share the same values of your business because again, conversations equal connections, connections, equal conversions.
[00:39:25] So my challenge is, is to go and really honestly think about when was the last time you picked up the phone or you said to voice message on DM. You know, there's always way to do it. That's my challenge to you guys is to go and implement it. That
[00:39:38] Allyson: is a beautiful challenge. I love it so much. Oh my gosh. And this has been just packed with fantastic information and I think super useful for those who listen, who are at the start of their entrepreneurial journey by those who have been at it for awhile.
[00:39:55] Just really, really useful information. Thank you so much. Please tell our listeners how they can find you.
[00:40:02] Angela: Sure. I always say depends on, you know, how you consume information or what it is that you're needing, but if you're wanting to listen to the podcast, are you wanting to read the blog article? Are you wanting to book in for one of those discovery calls, see whether or not I can help support you in your business journey, head to Angela henderson.com today you, and then from there you can pick and choose again what you would like.
[00:40:21] Podcast blog. See how I work with people. Check out my mastermind. Yeah. So just head to my, I call it my ecosystem, head to the ecosystem, Angela henderson.com today. You and I look forward to connecting with you. Perfect.
[00:40:33] Allyson: And that link will be in the show notes. And, and thank you again so much for sharing your wisdom with us today, so grateful for your time.
[00:40:42] And, I'm really excited to share this episode with my network.
[00:40:45] Angela: No worries. Thanks so much, Allison. You have a lovely day.